216 | Perimenopause + Menopause as Professional Organizers
A lot of professional organizers are in an age range that makes this topic SUPER important—today we are talking about perimenopause and menopause as Professional Organizers. This is a topic that you might not be totally comfortable talking about but LET’S GET COMFY because there is help out there!
You can listen here, read the full transcript below, or find us on Apple, Spotify, or anywhere you love to listen to podcasts!
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FULL TRANSCRIPT
Hey Pro Organizers, my name is Melissa Klug and you are listening to the Pro Organizer Studio Podcast. Professional organizing changed my entire life. After 20 years of working at huge companies, I started working for myself. I opened a professional organizing business, grew it to six figures, and I never looked back.
Now I get to spend all day, every day, teaching organizers around the world. How to find clients, how to market and sell yourselves, how to turn this business into what you want it to be. Whether you have been in business for 15 minutes or 15 years, you have a home at Pro Organizer Studio. I'm excited that you're here.
Let's get started.
Melissa Klug: Hey pro organizers. It's Melissa and I am here with a podcast that I've actually wanted to do for a long time. And I found the perfect person to talk about it with my friend Kim. She's been on the podcast several times. But we are talking about something that is really, really important to chat about,
That we are starting to hear more about out in the greater world in the news is menopause and perimenopause and post-menopause and all of those things.
And it is still something that maybe some people are uncomfortable talking about. But because there are so many women in this industry and because there may be things happening to you that you are like, oh, hey, I didn't know what this was. That's what happened to me. That's what happened to my guest, Kim. And so we just wanted to have a podcast about what you may be going through and your organizing business and not even realize it. Couple of caveats.
First of all, neither of us are doctors. We make people's underwear drawers. Very pretty. So, obviously this is not a substitute for any sort of actual medical information in the same way that Instagram and Tik TOK are not substitutes for medical education. And the second thing is I did record this awhile ago.
So, um, even though like today, when I am recording this intro, it is negative 14 degrees at my house. Um, you are going to hear me in one section, talk about air conditioning and you might be like, well, I'm very confused. We recorded this a while ago. All right. I would like to reintroduce you to someone who gets so much love when she comes on the podcast. So I'm thrilled to have her back to talk about this. It's my friend Kim Snodgrass of Rustic Home Organizing in Oregon.
Well, before we hit record, we were talking about, I couldn't make this up if I tried, chin hairs and gray, gray eyebrow hairs, which really leads us like beautifully into this conversation. Kim, how are you?
Kim Snodgrass: I am good. Yeah, that we definitely kind of down an interesting path.
Melissa Klug: I, I have said this many times before, just depending on the guests. Like when it's someone that I actually know in real life, like you we should probably record the podcast before the podcast. That would probably be more popular than what we're actually
Kim Snodgrass: Possibly you possibly maybe could have taken a few little bits and pieces from that.
Melissa Klug: Right. Yeah. But I asked Kim to be here with me for a few reasons. One, she's delightful. Two, she and I talk offline about the subject quite a bit, and it's something that impacts organizers a lot. And also, because your podcast episodes, people love hearing from you. So I decided it was time to have you back
Kim Snodgrass: yes. I'm excited too. This is great. And it's definitely a topic that you and I have covered a lot. And even though I'm not a doctor, I would love to just weigh in on what I have figured out, learned, and. What you're experiencing.
Melissa Klug: What we were talking about today, and this might not be everybody's cup of tea, and that is okay. If you are not comfortable talking about this stuff, you can skip on and don't listen. But, we are talking about perimenopause, menopause, and being an organizer and a business owner and all of those things, and how they all interact together.
And I actually love that we're talking about this because I believe that and I've seen it with my kids for sure. I think this new generation of kids, and we both have kids in the same ish age category, they're a lot more open about talking about things that impact us, like body stuff and all that kind of thing.
Like, whereas we grew up a little bit more, you know, you didn't talk about these things and they were private and they were buttoned up and no one talked about it. I think we're doing a much better job in talking about Major things health wise that impact us, but some people are still like a little about talking about perimenopause, menopause, that type of thing.
Have you seen that?
Kim Snodgrass: A hundred percent. And just to back up a little bit, I don't know if Michael aka Steve is listening, but he might want to just like forward to the next episode because this might not be for him.
Melissa Klug: Okay, so what Kim's talking about is we have it's a small number, but we have some men in our Inspired Organizer group. There was one of our Inspired Organizer members who is a dude, Michael Quan. Hello, Michael. Who actually probably doesn't listen to this podcast, but at the How To: Summit, he was there and got to know a bunch of people.
And then he was on one of our live zooms where we ended up talking about kegels and all sorts of other things. And he was like, I don't know what's going on right now. So anyway, but he's a good sport, which is great. But yeah, but these are important things to talk about. And I know it might feel uncomfortable, but like, these are things everybody's dealing with it.
But if we don't talk about it, we all think we're alone.
Kim Snodgrass: I agree. I, I do think for me, I've had to shift my thoughts of not so taboo as far as the menopause, perimenopause and what all that means, but it's just almost, you know, your body is just transitioning into a whole new world. Phase. And there is no manual. There's no heads up. It's coming. It hits everybody differently.
That's what I have learned. I, I know how it has hit me. But things that I suffer from, I can talk to somebody else that they're not feeling that. But they're feeling so many other things. But what I realized this last year is how much it was impacting my daily life. And how I could operate. How it was affecting parts of my body that I was clueless on why they were doing what they were doing.
And then after deep diving, doing lots of blood work, lots of doctor visits, figuring out what was causing a lot of it. Was shocking that something so simple as low estrogen and what it was doing to me as a whole and I think I'm still struggling and this statement is probably a little bolder than you wanted to dive into right away, but I think what I'm I am trying to wrap my head around is why we are so uncomfortable.
When our body is supposed to naturally be doing this, and so for me, I'm trying to figure out does this mean we're hitting this perimenopause, menopause, postmenopause stage in our life too soon? Is our body not ready for it? Is it food? Is it environment? You know, what is all of this? Because I have been so healthy my entire life.
And then all of a sudden to feel like a pile of dog poop on a daily basis has really thrown me for a loop. And I think that there's more and more research being done, which is fantastic. I'm hoping that my girls don't have to suffer as much as long as I did. And I'm hoping they don't have to do some of the things that I'm doing.
I hope that there's going to be advances or understanding of how to prevent some of this stuff.
Melissa Klug: One of the things when you talk about you know is this just normal is it or is it you know is it happening earlier is it any of those things I think the hard part with that is we don't really know I mean I'm sure doctors know but we don't really know because our parents didn't talk about these things like it was not discussed like it's just really recently and I think it It, what I have seen is it is social media, sometimes social media does good things.
There have been some really good social media coverage of perimenopause, menopause, postmenopause. I mean, one of the resources that I personally recommend and use a lot is Dr. Mary Claire Haver, who is she's an OBGYN who specializes in menopause research. And one of the reasons I like her is because she is talking about how OBGYNs do not get trained. On menopause, like I think her statistic was it was like two days of medical school or something about menopause and she is just basically saying like, Hey, we're not educated in this. And so we're, we're letting women kind of suffer. It is a normal process. But there are things that we haven't been talking about.
And so I think it's, it's really important. And I think for someone like you and me, I've generally been pretty healthy too. But you start to feel like really bad and you think, Oh my gosh, something major is going on. Nope. It's actually something teeny tiny,
Kim Snodgrass: very tiny.
Melissa Klug: microscopic that is impacting how I feel when I wake up, how I don't have as much energy at jobs, all that kind of thing.
Kim Snodgrass: My biggest eyeopening moment was when. I was about to have my hands all sliced and diced again here. I was going to do it September because my erosive arthritis diagnosis that I had they said it was genetic. Which from what I read it is but I was ready to have all 10 fingers cut open and cleaned out and stitch backed up, which would have meant my business was going to be put on hold for quite a bit of time.
It's a six week recovery and again,
Melissa Klug: life.
Kim Snodgrass: yeah. And cutting open your fingers, you know, I had, they were huge. I could barely move them. I was struggling working. I was getting the cysts on all the fingers again. And for about the sixth time in the year, I went back to the doctor and just said, you know, can we, can we just relook at all of my blood?
And it's when we realized that my estrogen had plummeted. And but then you start deep diving into estrogen is what protects our joints. And it gives this little armor to them. And when I lost my estrogen, I lost my armor to my joints. So then my genetic arthritis attacked them. And so as soon as I went on the estrogen patch, which was a very difficult decision for me, and this is a, I know this is hard for everybody with hormone replacement therapy because I do have breast cancer in my family and it was something we wanted to stay away from but my body was like, things were terrible were happening to it.
Anyway, fast forward two months, my swelling's down, my cysts are gone, and my joints are fine. They're not percent, but it's not understanding, I think, how menopause can affect the loss of certain hormones. How it can affect other parts of our body that we wouldn't think it's tied to.
I wouldn't have thought that my arthritis was tied to loss of estrogen. I would have no idea.
Melissa Klug: I, I for sure, until I started, really realizing what, like, I'm in perimenopause. And when I started to realize that, I was like, Oh, this explains things. Like after I started reading about all the things that can happen. I'm like, Oh, this explains a lot of things for me, but if you don't know that it's going on, you start to feel like, I think I might be breaking.
I'm either breaking down or I'm going crazy or all of the above. That's at least how I felt. I was like, why am I full of rage for no reason? And then I talked to a friend who's a little older than I am. And she's like, cause perimenopause. I'm like, pardon?
Kim Snodgrass: excuse me. And it was just funny because I didn't have the emotions. I was
Melissa Klug: That's the thing is everybody's so different.
Kim Snodgrass: I wasn't sad, and so I just was having this arthritis and severe hot flashes.
Melissa Klug: RIght.
Kim Snodgrass: Severe, but it wasn't just a hot flash. So mine were a progression of a quick anxiety attack that would last about 30 seconds. I couldn't describe it.
It would be a fight or flight feeling and like something, what just happened, like the universe, just like some sort of weird shift just happened because I was fine three seconds ago. And then my heart rate would spike and at times, and I've even recorded it on my watch to show The doctor, it would spike from like a 72 to 170.
And so then I would want to, that's an extremely high heart rate. I mean, that's like high cardio impact
Melissa Klug: Yeah, that's like running an ultra marathon at a sprint.
Kim Snodgrass: And then it would be, I'm going to throw up. then a couple minutes later, the sweat would pour out and then it would be over. But I was having those 15 to 20 a day and I
Melissa Klug: That's a lot. That's a
Kim Snodgrass: could, I couldn't, I was struggling at jobs. I would panic if I went into somebody's house and it was there was no airflow. I mean, I would be like, I don't know how I'm going to be here all day long. And so I also want to kind of talk about a little little tricks that I've learned along the way in case anybody is going through that that's listening.
But again, I suffered with those for a year and I don't think I should have suffered that long. And I really did have to be an advocate for my own health. I had to really, really, really push, even though I really like my doctor and I see a naturopathic slash regular doctor. She does both. But I had to keep saying something isn't right.
Something isn't right. And it wasn't her that told me about the estrogen affecting my Joints. It was me doing my research and then bringing it to her and her confirming it. So you really do have to be an advocate for yourself and not that Google can tell you the truth, but it can lead you to a few clues that might be happening and then bring that to your doc.
That really helped me a lot.
Melissa Klug: Yeah. And I love what you're saying too. This is coincidental that we are recording this a day that a good friend of mine was like, I'm having. You know, XYZ problems. And according to Google, it's either, this simple thing. She's like, or it might be cancer. And I'm like, don't go to Google for immediate medical advice, but there is now a lot more stuff about you do have to do.
Not every doctor is the right one for you. And I think we have this idea. Kind of a tangent, but I think we have this idea that like every doctor must just be like the best, smartest, best person. I have a really good friend who is a medical, by the way, a lot of friends who are dear, dear friends who are doctors and wonderful doctors.
This is not a doctor slam, but I had a friend who was in medical school and I said to her, Hey, how many people kind of like flame out first year? Like how many people are not in your class anymore? And she's like, Oh, no one. She goes, they make sure once you get in, they make sure you graduate. So she had a guy in her class who was on his third time at his first year.
Well, that guy will be a doctor someday. So it's just, just a message that if you don't feel like you're being listened to. If you don't feel like you know that someone is really taking your care or your concerns seriously, you can find someone else and just say, is this really just like a second opinion on, Hey, is this doctor telling me all the same things the first doctor?
So maybe this seems right. Or is there something else?
Kim Snodgrass: no, no, that's, that's very true. I think too, I think where I started to realize like something's got to give here is the amount of medication that kept getting prescribed to me to cover up the symptoms. So the, the heart rate was a big concern because that's, you know, Having those that many a day, that was, that's not good for your heart.
So then I get put on beta blockers to slow, to slow my heart rate down. And then I get put on this other drug that you can get from a compound pharmacy that they give to opioid addicts, but they give it to you in low doses. And this kind of helps with chronic pain. And I mean, at one point I was taking like.
6 to 10 pills throughout the day. This is from somebody who took nothing her whole life to 6 to 10. I was like, I can't do this. I literally can't, I won't do this.
Melissa Klug: That's why,
Kim Snodgrass: patch took all of that away.
Melissa Klug: and you're right. These are all really personal decisions. And I know that by the way, this is obviously not medical advice because we make people's underwear drawers pretty. We are not doctors, but it is just being like, I really love what you said about being an advocate for yourself because. Yeah.
One of the things that, like I said, OBGYNs are sometimes a great place to go, but they might not be the right place for some things that you would think they would be. Sort of like how organizers always think realtors should be a great source of referrals for them, and in fact they are. You know what I mean?
It's those things that like, make sense, and you go like, well, I'm having this problem. It's an OBGYN problem. My OBGYN should be able to help me. Sometimes they're just not as well versed in it either. And so it's about finding someone that will listen to you and figure out, hey, is there a deeper problem here?
For you, it looked like this little estrogen patch that fixed a lot of other things.
Kim Snodgrass: Yeah, which was crazy.
Melissa Klug: yeah I, so I'm very fortunate that I have an OB GYN who's the loveliest. She is one of my favorite people and we found out during one of my pregnancies that we were born on the exact same day. I, this year, was like, I am going in to see her, last year I didn't see her, I saw someone else, and I'm going in to see her because I know that she will know precisely what I am talking about, because we are the same age.
But then you also realize that, like, no, that's actually not true, because your symptoms are wildly different than mine, which are wildly different, like, everybody has different stuff going on, too.
Kim Snodgrass: Right.
Melissa Klug: And, and that's hard too, because like I have friends I talk to this about, talk about this with, and they're all, you know, some of my friends are having tons of hot flashes.
I'm lucky that I haven't had that yet, but I'm kind of hot all the time.
Kim Snodgrass: Yeah. Yes, there's it's definitely a difference and my temperature did start to rise. I would say about four years before I so Oh, really quick. I also learned in a book I was listening to and I can't reference it off the top of my head, but I learned that there the three phases of menopause the perimenopause menopause and postmenopause.
I learned that menopause is literally one day. Which I thought was kind of cool. And I don't think everybody realizes that. So basically you're either perimenopause or postmenopause. Menopause is the day that you have your one year anniversary. We all know what that one year anniversary is. So yeah, just to anybody out there that's just entering this phase of this wonderful magical world.
You really have two areas and what determines that is levels. Whatever those hormone levels are. And
Melissa Klug: Which is estrogen and testosterone, right? And
Kim Snodgrass: yeah. And then your obviously going one year without a cycle brings you into that. Actually I think that is technically medically what determines your post menopause.
Melissa Klug: It is. Yes.
Kim Snodgrass: But along with that is these plummeting levels of these hormones.
Melissa Klug: And that's why I wanted to make sure that we were talking about perimenopause a lot because of the age range that a lot of organizers fall in. And because I know, like me, I'm a pretty well read, educated person. Like I know a lot of random things about a lot of things. And I was extremely uneducated about the length of time perimenopause could be.
Years. It also can start way earlier than you think it does. So I think there's this number in our heads of like, when you're in your 50s, these things start to happen. No, it can actually, perimenopause can start in your 30s. There's no, there's no rhyme or reason to what age it is. I think, I believe it's a little bit genetically influenced by your mom.
But that isn't even always a good arbiter. And so if there are, if you are in your 30s, you know, mid 30s and you're like, well, I'm not feeling quite the same as I used to. I know for me, it kind of really, I really kind of felt it at like 40
Kim Snodgrass: Mine was 41.
Melissa Klug: you might not realize it, but you are probably in some stage of perimenopause when that estrogen starts to go down and you might start feeling impacts.
Like for me, I never had what people would call PMS ever. Totally fine. All of a sudden I'd be like, wow, I just really want to kill everyone that I come in contact with. Like including people I love very much like what why I don't have any reason to like, I'm not being attacked. Nothing's happening to me.
I'm like, why am I so upset all the time? And then I'd be like, oh, Oh, it's PMS. Well, wait, I've never had that before. These are all like little signs. And for me, it was also just feeling a lot more tired. And even when I got plenty of sleep, all those things weight gain, which is my favorite, that's the best.
Kim Snodgrass: Such a joy.
Melissa Klug: Can't can't be more excited about that. But yeah, there are just a lot of different symptoms that you might go, Hey, it's perimenopause. And I have friends now who, you know, I have a group text with one set of friends or the other day, this woman was complaining about X, Y, Z symptoms. And I'm like, just FYI, probably perimenopause.
Kim Snodgrass: kind of. Yeah,
Melissa Klug: Like, what, what are you talking about?
Kim Snodgrass: And looking back, I can see now when I started, that's how I know I had my first little cyst pop up on my hand when I was 41. And it just kind of stayed dormant for about five years before I had to do anything to it. But those were the beginning. Beginning signs of it. Yeah.
And you know, the lack of sleep, all of that. You know, the whole thing really affects your daily life and if you're running a business I think to be prepared for it because it really does kind of throw a wrench into your plans. And there's a lot of diet and exercise that goes along with this. And I am not as educated in that.
I'd have a friend of mine that really dives deep into that. And I do get information from her. And I don't do enough. I know. I don't, I know I'm not doing enough of
Melissa Klug: working on that right now. I had a very long doctor's appointment about that earlier this
Kim Snodgrass: Yeah, I, I, I dabbled a little bit, but I was like, I just don't enjoy working out like I once did. It's something that I am consciously trying to change my mindset, but I'm not there yet. But there's just so much that goes along with it. And what you think might not be a symptom could be a symptom and definitely be an advocate for yourself.
Melissa Klug: What you said about just as organizer, first of all, organizing is a physical job. We all know that. And just running a business in general, you know, I don't care how big or small your your business is running a business takes a lot of work and energy and effort.
And as your energy goes down, like I am a person who in, you know, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, I could have stayed, I could have survived on four hours of sleep for a few nights a week. I mean, that's not good long term, right? But I had a huge project I was working on. It was no big deal. I could get five hours of sleep function great the next day.
And sometimes in entrepreneurship, you have those times where you're like, I have to work really late, you know, I'm going to a client and then I have to build them and blah, blah, blah, all the things your energy does start to go down. And so you have to really protect that. And you have to have a plan for that.
And that's something that I'm personally working through right now, but that that's hard to all of it's hard.
Kim Snodgrass: Yeah, and there are mornings and and even afternoons where you, I just feel like crap, I just, I literally feel like I partied for the last three or four days hard,
Melissa Klug: Right.
Kim Snodgrass: and I don't, nothing really was different. So that must be something internal going on and that's also another thing that you know I struggle with sometimes I have.
If I have a big job the day before, the night before, if I have a big job, the next day, I'll start like worrying, Oh, gosh, am I going to sleep? Am I going to wake up tomorrow and feel okay and blah, and then you just set yourself up for failure?
Melissa Klug: I have seen in myself, in the, the years since I started my business, you know, definitely. Cause I started when I was 42 I definitely have seen, like, I used to work seven days a week and it was no problem. Like, it really didn't bother me. I just, I have realized I can't do that anymore. That's not something that works for me.
And I've had to come to grips with that too.
Kim Snodgrass: You know, another thing that I recently was brought to my attention, and again, I'm not a doctor, and I am not going to state anything that I know is overly factual. But I do see a pattern. So there is this big wave of all these late life ADHD diagnosis in women, especially in women, not men.
We're not hearing about the men we're
Melissa Klug: Now, because they get diagnosed when they're kids.
Kim Snodgrass: I know. And again, I don't, I'm not going to be able to state all of the facts because my brain doesn't remember things. And that's not menopause. That's just me. That's just my brain. So imagine it on menopause anyway. So apparently there is a connection between the loss of hormones.
And the intensity in which ADHD presents itself.
Melissa Klug: Interesting.
Kim Snodgrass: And the person that I talked to about this had done a deep dive into it and had a lot more of the clinical research. So I probably should have written that down before we talked, but I didn't. Which explains
Melissa Klug: going to call this podcast TikTok medicine because that's the same thing as like any, when you go on TikTok, I got TikTok diagnosed with ADHD. So that's, that's what this is. This is not medical advice.
Kim Snodgrass: And you know, I got diagnosed almost two years ago.
In fourth grade my teacher basically told my mom your kid's pretty jacked. And, you know, back then, back then they didn't really do much for us and mine wasn't the super hyper. I was just kind of like, I just couldn't retain anything. I was talkative and blah, blah, blah, anywho.
So I was a stay at home mom, most. Of my adult life with the exception of some jobs here and there. It wasn't until I started this business that I realized. Oh, crap. I really struggle at the computer. Oh, I really struggle like sitting here and understanding and comprehending and remembering and like, can you tell me that step one more time?
Or can you tell me that step 10 more times? And so I ended up going to a ADHD clinic. So my doctor doesn't treat me for it. I went to a clinic that is 100 percent all they treat is ADHD because I wanted to understand what our brains are doing with it. Not just give me a pill and send me on my way, because I know that anyway, and I've already forgotten to know where I was going with
Melissa Klug: This is a great, I was excited. I was like, okay, I'm on the train.
Kim Snodgrass: Oh.
You know, I just, I, I really dove in deep with my, the, and it's a doctor that's, that's all they treat though, which I wish so much. And maybe we will get doctors that just treat menopause.
Melissa Klug: a single lane doctor.
Kim Snodgrass: percent treat menopause. Over the last two years of being on this medicine, we have had to really play around with types of medicine, time of the day I take the medicine, quick release, fast release because of the menopause phase of my life that I'm in and how it affects my What I'm doing in my body on a daily basis.
So she was talking about all of these TikTok diagnosis
I'm sure it drives doctors insane.
does because there is a true brain fog that comes with menopause and that can be confused with a true ADHD diagnosis.
Melissa Klug: Well, I think that's a good point, though, of like, doctors haven't even figured some of this stuff out, right? Like, and, like, they making those connections for them. By the way, a doctor's job is so hard. Like, having to make all these connections between all the things, like, that seems very stressful, and I would not, not be a good doctor.
But that's really super interesting that you can have a symptom, sort of like your arthritis, that mimics, like, it could easily be something else, but it's not. It's like a Canary in the coal mine or whatever.
Kim Snodgrass: yeah. And, and so I do believe there are a lot of women in our age range right now that are being quote unquote diagnosed with ADHD or ADD. I think it's just, there is no in between. You just, presents itself differently. And I think they've stopped using one or the other terms. I think it's just one term now, maybe ADHD.
I don't know.
Melissa Klug: Yeah. Yeah.
Kim Snodgrass: but I highly recommend if anybody is out there thinking they have it and they have the TikTok diagnosis, head to a specialist. It is amazing. Talk about what your brain is doing, and it is so cool to learn, and it helps me understand more how I work, and how I operate, and why I do the things I've done in the past, and why some things are happening to me now.
Melissa Klug: I, I was just looking for the text you sent me. I don't think you'll mind me saying this, but when we were trying to figure out when to tape this, you were like, wait, I have to make sure my meds have kicked in when I talk to you.
Kim Snodgrass: I do! I have to. You know, it's interesting in the IO group. So many people, the young, it's more of the younger ones. I think I have this client with ADD and I just, you know, I want to make like, guys, we're not like this weird beast.
Melissa Klug: Right. Well, so we're going to start
Kim Snodgrass: different, yeah, there's different levels of it and it presents itself differently and it's not always that.
Yeah, it's,
Melissa Klug: is one of the, as I like to talk about the hills I'll die on is now, you know, we have seen a lot of people come into the group. I have a client who tells me she has ADHD. How do I work with her? And it's like, well, she could have 22 different kinds of it. Like I have had clients with ADHD that present.
And I know we've talked about this before, but I'm going to keep talking about it. ADHD presents a ton of different ways depending on the client. Some people become so hyper organized that they're over organized. Some people are the squirrel. Some people need things in clear bins, but some people want them hidden.
It's all, it's all over the board. And my going in hypothesis for every organizer is you should assume that your client has ADHD until she tells you that she doesn't. that's what I'm seeing more and more. I had a consultation the other day and I just, as she was talking to me, I just, and I sensed she was the kind of person that would be cool with this.
I was like, do you mind me asking, have you been diagnosed with ADHD? She's like, yeah, I totally have. How did you know? And I'm like and
Kim Snodgrass: industry you can catch on to it pretty quick. Yeah, definitely.
Melissa Klug: so figuring that out, we're going to be talking a lot more about ADHD because I think it's really important for organizers to really figure out how to be flexible of their approach. But your point is, it could be, could be ADHD. It could just be menopause or perimenopause. It could be both. It could
Kim Snodgrass: It could be a very dysfunctional marriage. It could be a lot. It could be a lot of things. But I definitely, I, I, I will say, I mean, I know you go in thinking everybody has it. I go in assuming nobody does. I'm just going to treat everybody just where they need to be met at. So
Melissa Klug: I don't even go in with like, oh, I assume you have an actual diagnosis. I just mean, I assume that right now, because of modern life, all the other things, all of the people that I'm helping have some degree, I personally, again, not a medical professional, I just think that the speed of modern life, phones, our attention span, all of those things are affecting all of us, and there might be them.
Right. Even if we don't have an actual diagnosis, I think we all just have the shortest attention spans ever. And so we can't keep our focus on, you know, even if a client just doesn't want to organize their linen closet, it's because we can't focus on anything. And so I just am going to assume that I need to figure out how to make a plan that works for everyone, but I need to act as if everybody just probably has, again, either the TikTok or the actual diagnosis.
Because it's everyone now.
Kim Snodgrass: Is definitely. So yeah, so there's, you know, menopause I have found totally has affected the earth, my arthritis a new one. This is fun. This was a lot is in the last six weeks and I thought it was, I didn't know what it was to be honest with you, but my mouth is so incredibly dry.
Melissa Klug: yeah, you told me this.
Kim Snodgrass: Yeah, that my like in the middle of the night. It's almost like I have to peel my gums from my teeth and like it feels like my gums are going to rip off and stay on my teeth.
Melissa Klug: this is a very specific complaint.
Kim Snodgrass: horrific. It is so bad. I don't have bad breath, but I have incredibly dry mouth. Like, it's the weirdest thing in the entire world.
We all think we've had dry mouth until we have dry mouth. That is, and again, I started looking it up. And, estrogen affects your salvato, salvatory glands? Salva glands.
Melissa Klug: Salivary.
Kim Snodgrass: Yes, so again, my doctor didn't tell me this, but I deep dive, and it's like gave like a few different reasons like it could be because of medication, and I've been on my medication for two years so it would have, I would have already figured that
Melissa Klug: Sure, yeah.
Kim Snodgrass: And. And then it said low estrogen.
Melissa Klug: Stop it.
Kim Snodgrass: yeah, so I have a dry mouth spray that I carry around with me at client's house so that I can actually speak to them when they want to, because my mouth is so dry.
Yeah. It's terrible.
Melissa Klug: Well, let's talk about clients. Because I, okay, so I was at a client the other day, I actually put this on Instagram, and many people chimed in. I was at a client who is an older man and his house is, he just really doesn't like air conditioning, he's, it's not a money thing, trust me, not a money thing. It is just, he doesn't like air conditioning.
His house always has the windows open, and it was 155, 000 degrees in there, and I was really proud of myself because I just flat out said, now I've worked with him for a long time, I have a good relationship with him but I was like, hey, Bill, I'm gonna need to ask you, can I turn the air conditioning on?
It's pretty, pretty toasty up here. He's like, oh, yeah, sure. He didn't care. But I was really proud of myself because every other time I've been there, the million times that I've been to his house, I have never, ever said a word. And I just have sweat myself silly. I had many people that responded are like, Oh, my gosh, I hate when clients houses are hot, that type of thing.
But I was really proud of myself for speaking up for like, Hey, this is what I need. And that might seem very tiny to you. For me, that's a big deal. I don't I'm usually like, this is fine. But I have what are some things that you have had to do at clients to compensate for some of these things?
Kim Snodgrass: so the hot flashes. Thank the Lord have gone almost away. I get, I get a little bit of internal inferno, but I don't get the high heart rate as much. If I do, it's only like 110, not 170. I don't like get beet red in the face anymore. And that's all because of being on the patch, but I still do get hot.
And the, the year that I suffered with that, I, it was a big thing. I like you, I wouldn't say anything because I didn't want to make my clients uncomfortable because they obviously have the thermometer set where they want it.
Melissa Klug: Sure. Yeah,
Kim Snodgrass: but it, it was difficult and it, I mean, it would be sometimes where you're literally watching the clock and not being able to concentrate almost on what you're doing or rushing it because you've got to get yourself outside.
So for me, what I did, because again, I didn't speak up. Which that's changed now. I do always ask for air ventilation. Just a window open, something. I carried around a mini fan. It was a rechargeable mini fan. And it had a little stand with it. It was like $10 on Amazon. And that saved my life. So when I got like super overheated, I could just hold it on me for a second.
That was very, very helpful. I always made sure I had ice in my water and I would guzzle that. I had no problem walking outside here or there for a few minutes. Now in the summertime, that was when it was 100 degrees outside. That didn't
Melissa Klug: didn't help.
Kim Snodgrass: For me having, I'm not a team, I'm a solo organizer, but I do have an assistant and my assistant doing all of the. Loading back and forth that saved my life. I would always switch my shoes midday
Melissa Klug: Okay.
Kim Snodgrass: because if you think about it, like when you get really hot, they either say like, cool your wrists, cool the back of your neck your ankles. And so our shoes get so hot.
Melissa Klug: Oh, I never really I've never thought about that.
Kim Snodgrass: they're almost like little heating pads.
So they just hold that heat. And so midday, I would change my shoes and that was a game changer.
Melissa Klug: Interesting. I never thought about that.
Kim Snodgrass: changed my shoes and my socks. They're refreshed. So they weren't like holding all this heat.
Melissa Klug: That's interesting because I live in such a cold place and we always, we have foot warmers for the winter when we're outside. We need foot coolers.
Kim Snodgrass: We need foot coolers for
Melissa Klug: I mean, I'm sure we could probably just get like, yeah, interesting. Okay. I never really thought about that.
Kim Snodgrass: Yeah. Obviously I would dress in layers. I didn't always love to wear a tank top at a client's house, but eventually it would end up my tank. I would just have my, my work tank top on the dry wicking yoga pants. I know there's a lot of organizers that don't think that's very professional and Maybe not, but the houses I'm working in, I usually have to come home and hop right in the shower.
I'm not, you know, dealing in the same realm maybe as some, so I didn't have a problem wearing my yoga pants. And then for me, even though I was changing my shoes, my shoes were flip flops. Just the flip flop girl. And yeah, the, the heat is a, it's a, it's a thing in the
Melissa Klug: There were, I'll have to put links together, but when I was in Japan, it gets really, really hot in Japan in the summer and they had all, they have like a ton of technology for trying to stay cool and there was a thing I need to look into it, but it's like an ice ring you wear
Kim Snodgrass: Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. Oh, that was the other thing I ordered. I ordered these really cute pink. They're like this size. I know if you're not watching it, I'm like putting my hands up and giving this size.
Melissa Klug: Yeah.
Kim Snodgrass: I'd put and they're for like injuries and they have like the velcro strap on them, but I would put those in the small of my back and I would have a cooler in the car that would have an ice pack so I could swap it
Melissa Klug: You could switch to switch it out. Yep.
Kim Snodgrass: Oh my gosh, that helps so much. And you can put that under your shirt. So it's not even being
Melissa Klug: Yeah. It's not visible.
Kim Snodgrass: Oh my gosh, that helps so much.
Melissa Klug: And we'll for anything that you love, I'll totally link it in the show notes. Like if
Kim Snodgrass: Okay. I do have a few go tos, especially that handheld fan because it's purse size. It fits in my tool bag. It can fit in my pocket and the charge holds for a couple of days. And I'm a, I'm a big fan of that guy.
Melissa Klug: that's good. You're a big fan of the fan.
Kim Snodgrass: I'm a big fan. Yeah.
Melissa Klug: But I just think that as much as possible for us to within the, you know, the level of our comfort to just be upfront with clients about, Hey, you're going to get better work out of me if I can be cool. And by the way, this is, this just goes for, if you're even not in perimenopause or post menopause, like.
Making sure you're comfortable with a client is good for a hundred different reasons. You're going to work better all the things, but especially during this time, if you want to continue to work and be productive, speaking up occasionally, I've, I realized that that's a me problem, not a client problem.
The clients aren't frustrated by it.
Kim Snodgrass: No, they aren't. And I know one way for like people like you and me who maybe don't want to be upfront about it. I've said this before, and this I used more to go towards having the, the space ready and set up and dogs not sniff sniffing my, you know what, all the time. But sending an email a day or two before.
Of setting expectations and just saying, you know, we work fast because we want you to get the most bang for your buck. If you could, you know, have the house at 68, I, that, you know, even if it's not that comfortable for you, it really helps us work so much more. Or have a fan available, something like just stating what you need because the client doesn't know.
They're sitting there at their desk working or watching you, which drives me out of my mind.
Melissa Klug: know that's your least favorite thing when someone watches you.
Kim Snodgrass: Can you please not watch me ever,
Melissa Klug: Please leave me
Kim Snodgrass: I just, you know what, my work t shirts are now going to say, I need you to stop watching.
Melissa Klug: need you to please exit the space. Thank you very much.
Kim Snodgrass: Leave. Leave with your belongings.
Melissa Klug: No offense. Get out.
Kim Snodgrass: Yeah so I think that's a really good just way to just, you know, Set the precedence. Not every client's going to read it, but most of them will. And maybe if it's just set, you just don't even have to have the conversation. Make your
Melissa Klug: Or even if you just have, like, even if you don't want to do a whole, you know, expectation document, which I think is a great idea you could just say, hey, just a couple of things for our session. And, you know, if it's, if that's the kind of the non negotiable, just, you know, Give them the, give them a text a couple days beforehand saying, hey, just something that people don't often think about, but it really helps us.
Or you can literally just say to a person, hey, I'm just having a little bit of a medical thing. It's not, not, not a big deal, but you know, if we could take the temperature down, that would be great. There are a lot of ways you can say it. You don't have to like come out and
Kim Snodgrass: Yeah. Cause really working, working in a stuffy home is, is really uncomfortable. It's so
Melissa Klug: what you have going on. It's the worst for our
Kim Snodgrass: It really is. Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa Klug: My hothouse client the other day I found I wasn't going to be there for a super, super long time. So I didn't want to go through the whole rigmarole, but I happened to find like one of their empty rooms had one of those vortex fans.
And I'm like, I'm not even
Kim Snodgrass: Plug that in.
Melissa Klug: I'm just taking it. If he has questions, I'll answer them. But I'm like, I plug in that baby and, and it made it like a billion times better. So
Kim Snodgrass: I did start carrying in my car and this even goes for winter time. You know, we don't get as cold as Minnesota, but we do get cold here and then people crank the heat. And so now you're in a house that's 82 degrees and fake heat. Anyway, I did start carrying when Costco gets them in the, the WUZU fans.
Melissa Klug: Yes.
Kim Snodgrass: The small little round guy, they're quiet you know, and they oscillate up, down, all around, and they have good power for just a small little guy. And I did bring, have that on one job because I just, I've got to have some airflow.
Melissa Klug: Especially for longer ones. Are there any other things that you have found, like, outside of the actual session? Like, sleep, or food, or anything like that? Anything else that you have found? You're further in the journey than I am, so.
Kim Snodgrass: I will say there is a really big difference when you can get your protein in having the protein helps your energy level, which you would think the carbs and all of that would but. I have found that, and I do think there is some backing behind this, that the higher protein meals throughout the day helps with that, that energy constant, not the ups and the downs.
And so I always make sure when I am working that I have The high protein yogurt, chicken, like just, just protein stuff that, that has definitely helped me a lot. Of course they say no alcohol, but I can't tell you because I haven't, I
Melissa Klug: to try out that particular
Kim Snodgrass: tried that because I don't want to. That's why. Yeah. But, oh, another thing for the in on jobs. And this is for anybody that sweats. It is a lifesaver and I learned it from a client who was going through menopause. The AMB powder, you can get it on Amazon.
Melissa Klug: Oh, I don't even know what it is.
Kim Snodgrass: Anti monkey butt,
Melissa Klug: Anti monkey butt. Oh, I know what monkey butt is.
Kim Snodgrass: AMB powder, life changing. You can put, you can put that in crevices from head to toe
Melissa Klug: Okay.
Kim Snodgrass: and it, it traps that sweat and you don't feel it dripping down and it's so great.
Melissa Klug: Interesting. Okay. The only reason I know about Monkey Butt, boy, this podcast is really going a lot of direction. I know about Monkey Butt because we used to run, if you've ever heard of Ragnar, by the way, I don't run. I only drive. I was the support person. But there was this like two day.
Kim Snodgrass: Sounds like our hood to coast.
Melissa Klug: Yes, is a huge running race.
I used to drive like my husband and all the people on our team. But there was one guy who was so obsessed with monkey, but I mean, he was like, constantly like one of our quote, we always kept a quote book from the weekend and we're like, Oh, Adam's putting monkey butt down his pants again.
And it was just like, so that's the only reason I know what monkey butt is. But now I'm excited to know that.
Kim Snodgrass: and yes, they also have a glide that is great, you know, and it. Yeah, for the areas that produce sweat a lot, I highly recommend even double upping the glide and the powder. It's, it's good. It's good stuff. So it's all about comfort.
Melissa Klug: My lower back on jobs is a sweaty mess.
Kim Snodgrass: You need the ice pack.
Melissa Klug: I know.
Kim Snodgrass: Yeah. The ice pack is, is amazing.
Melissa Klug: Yeah, that's actually really smart. I honestly have never, that's so silly because I love, I get migraines a lot and I have multiple ice packs for my head, but I've never considered having one for like my waist or my back. That's really, really smart. But I just think giving yourself the grace of, you know, so you and I are at different scales. stages of this journey. I'm just a little bit younger than you are, not by very much. And again, that age range is widely varying. It doesn't matter what age you are. But I'm still in perimenopause, which will last who knows how many years.
I have found like giving myself the grace of guess what? I can't do things exactly like I did five years ago or even a year ago. Like I have to pivot. And I have to be watching myself more carefully. Like I have to be taking better care of myself. That's one thing I have realized is I haven't been doing a good job taking care of myself.
And I think that's easy as an entrepreneur to just be like, whatever, I don't need to go for a walk today. I have too many things to do. No, I, I have to, and it's going to help keep me healthy to continue to organize and coach and do all the things.
Kim Snodgrass: For sure. I noticed that my balance isn't quite as
Melissa Klug: Yeah, same.
Kim Snodgrass: So I have to be a little bit more cautious when I'm going downstairs. You know, I don't, whereas before I could carry like six or seven boxes and not even see where I'm going, I will not do that now. I, I definitely am more cautious
I'm carrying and where.
Melissa Klug: Yeah, I'm glad you said that because I actually thought about that earlier and I had forgotten to say it. I, I used to be the kind of, and I still am, I'm the kind of person I like to say yes. I like to really help a client with things even that might be outside of kind of technical job scope.
I had a client recently who like, Two years ago, I would have been like, yeah, let's move that furniture from the attic. Let's go. And I flat out told her, I was like, babe, I really love you. And she's much younger than I am. And I go, I adore you, but I can't do that kind of stuff anymore. I go, can you call your cousin, your neighbor, your whatever?
Like, I, I just am not going to feel comfortable moving an armoire from the attic. Whereas two years ago, I would have been like, yeah, let's go.
Kim Snodgrass: Let's do this.
Melissa Klug: I just have realized I don't want to, I don't want to risk doing something stupid because I definitely am not the same.
Kim Snodgrass: Right. Yeah. Unfortunately, the menopause does take a toll on our bodies. And I think there's a lot of things that you can do to make it better that aren't all fun. And that's for me, that's, I know a lot of my problem right now, physically the strength is because I'm not working on it and I choose not to at the moment.
Melissa Klug: And that's where I am. And I, I had a, I had a little, little heartwarming heartwarming moment this week with the doctor. That's like, girl.
Kim Snodgrass: put it.
Melissa Klug: Yeah, so that's, that's going to be my, my new concentration is figuring some of that stuff out, but it's, that's important too. So you've got to, you've got to work with people.
I have finally declared defeat on some of my own problems and said, I need to go to a doctor. I need a doctor to help me with these things. And, and I just know that it's going to be hard work that is worthwhile because I want to be healthy.
Kim Snodgrass: yeah, yeah.
Melissa Klug: decade. So
Kim Snodgrass: and to all those ladies out there who sleep through the night, you're so fortunate. And if all of a sudden, like me, who for like 40, eight years, slept like a baby. And then one night you sleep for an hour and 15 minutes at a time. I mean, for only maybe two or three sessions that takes a toll on you too.
Your body does slowly start to adjust. So there is, you will learn how to adapt to some of that loss of sleep. Unfortunately the hormones didn't help that piece with me. So I still don't do the sleep thing, but Allow yourself a nap, take a nap, take a break with a client, go close your eyes. Like you just got to let yourself get a little bit of shut eye here and there.
Melissa Klug: Yeah, legitimately, I don't do it often. But if it's really, really necessary, I have 100 percent by the way, go around the corner if you need to drive your car around the corner if you need to. I have taken a 20 minute car nap, just to get it's certainly not an enjoyable nap situation, but like getting even a tiny bit of quiet and rest.
Really can help in my experience. If you ever see an email for me or an Instagram post or whatever in the middle of the night, you're going to know now why, because same thing, like it's not, mine's actually getting a little bit better,
Kim Snodgrass: Oh, that's good.
Melissa Klug: because we got a new bed. I also think that's part of it, but yeah, I, we got a new bed
Kim Snodgrass: Okay. Yeah.
Melissa Klug: that, that has actually helped.
Kim Snodgrass: Okay. I got a cooling mat cooling blanket. It's actually like, comforter cooling comforter that. Was a game changer for a little bit of my comfort at night. It's the type that as soon as it hits air, it instantly gets cold. And when I say cold, I mean, freezing cold.
Melissa Klug: interesting.
Kim Snodgrass: Yeah.
And that that is hands down my, one of my favorite tools that I've gotten throughout this whole thing was that. Comforter. Yeah.
Melissa Klug: I know. So my brother is a medical researcher and he always sends me like that. I mean, like legit. He is actually a doctor. I just play one on this podcast, but he sends me stuff occasionally that he finds and is really useful. And we have talked before about the cooling mattress toppers, like they have them and you can.
You can do that. They have cooling and heating. You can get one for me for both sides. So you're not like freezing out, you know, someone that you sleep with. But there is a lot of legit science behind some of these things.
Kim Snodgrass: I, I have the cooling pillow, the cooling pillow case, cooling pillow case, the cooling sheets and the cooling mattress topper and or the mattress pad. And I have the cooling comforter. Out of all of those, the cooling comforter is the only one that actually gives me any sort of true quick relief.
Melissa Klug: Okay.
Kim Snodgrass: I will say that. And maybe I'm just not buying the right things and the other ones, but it all makes sense when it says it's activated by air. You know, your mattress topper isn't getting the air, your pillow, your heads on it, you know, so it kind of makes sense to me, your sheets aren't getting it because you've got the blanket over it.
So it kind of makes sense to me why it works so well. So if anybody wants to buy any of one out of all those, I say get the comforter for sure.
Melissa Klug: Okay. Yeah. And we'll, we'll link if you have good links, we'll put them in the
Kim Snodgrass: I will try and find the link to that one. It was a Costco purchase.
Melissa Klug: it might not work then.
Kim Snodgrass: I know. Anyway.
Melissa Klug: just gives people an idea of, of what might be out there. But I just think being an ad, I think what you've said is most important as being an advocate for yourself, whether that's at your doctor's office, whether that's with a client you know, you don't have to go into amazing depths of detail with people, but just be like, Hey, you know, I need X, Y, Z, take the breaks, be kind to yourself.
One of the things that's been really good for me, and again, I don't, I, I don't know what, you know, this might not work for everyone. It might not be something that fits with them. But I mentioned Dr. Mary Claire Haver, who is someone that I know a lot of women listen to. She has a book called the pause life, which I read.
And I just, I really liked it. So if you just want more information, it's very comprehensive. She talks about all of the things, like it's a very holistic about, you know, pros and cons of HRT pros and cons of, you know, eating all that kind of stuff. So that was one that I particularly connected with
Kim Snodgrass: That's great. Yeah. I found one and I'll have to look it up that really talked about the hormones and understanding the difference in the hormone replacement therapy and how research that was done X amount of years ago that gave it such a bad rap. The research has, you know, changed as everything and some of the validity in that research and then just understanding the different types of hormone replacement, bioidentical versus not and you know, your genetic makeup and how it's possibly going to respond to those.
There's just so much out there. But I think there is a lot of fluff too. So you definitely have to be careful, just like picking a business coach,
Melissa Klug: Yeah,
Kim Snodgrass: which is something else we talked about, but you have to be careful that you're listening or reading the right information.
Melissa Klug: I think that, and without going down a rabbit hole of, you know, this is not a political statement, it's not anything, but I think, like, when COVID happened, and everybody starts saying, like, I'm doing my own research, and you're like, then we stopped listening to doctors, and we stopped, like, there's just a lot of stuff out there, and the one thing that I will just always remind people is Figuring out what a legitimate source of information is, by the way, whether that is a business coach or a doctor or anything else.
I think there, because as we were joking earlier about TikTok diagnoses of ADHD, there is so much stuff out there that people speak very knowledgeably about something. And you're like, they, who are they? They're like, literally, I could go on TikTok and start talking about, you know, menopause treatments. I don't know anything, right?
Like,
Kim Snodgrass: But somebody might listen to you
Melissa Klug: Yeah, but just like check out who you're talking to. That's why I personally connect with Dr. Haver because she is a board certified OBGYN and she like, and she talks about OBGYN education and how it's bad and all the, like, I don't know, I connect with her. You might not, but just make sure you're getting good sources of information and, you know, actually going to doctors and, and all the things, whatever you feel comfortable with, but
Kim Snodgrass: for sure. Yep. And just, you know, set yourself up for success in your own home. You know, make sure that you've got a fan close by I have a fan in my kitchen window. So if I get hot doing dishes, I just turn it on. And I have flip flop slippers instead of closed toe slippers, because I know my feet are going to get hot and then I'll get hot.
Like set yourself up for success. Don't, you know, you don't have to suffer completely. Completely. And your family is going to learn how to freeze. It's
Melissa Klug: Yeah. So you just reminded me. So when I was pregnant with my first kid, she was born in January and I distinctly remember is like, you know, at the end of when you're pregnant and you're just a furnace. And it was like January 8th, probably it was freezing cold where we lived at the time.
And I went to bed wearing shorts and a tank top and I had a sheet over me. That was it. My husband was next to me in a hoodie, a thick hoodie with the hood all the way up. It's cold. He had a hat under the hoodie. He, I can still see it. He had multiple comforters on another blanket. I mean, he was just.
Freezing and I was like, it's so hot in here. And he's like, what is going on? And I told him not that long ago, I go, Hey buddy, do you remember that night in Ohio when I was pregnant and you were freezing cold and I was really, really hot. I go, that is coming back for you.
Kim Snodgrass: we're coming and it's going to be for a long time.
Melissa Klug: Yeah, that window is going to be open all winter, dude. So get ready.
Kim Snodgrass: My favorite temperature is 58 so when the when it's 58 in here I'm like, this is.
Melissa Klug: Yeah, I, it's starting to get a little cooler here. Probably the same for you a little bit. And I am living for it. It's
Kim Snodgrass: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Melissa Klug: Is there anything that we did not talk about?
Kim Snodgrass: You know, probably, but Not that I can think of off the top of my head. Again, just being an advocate for yourself and knowing that there could be some things going on in your body that are directly related to it and talking to your doctor about it is, I think, and being persistent about before you do anything super drastic.
Melissa Klug: Yeah, I love it. So we will put lots of resources any links that Kim can find of things that she loves. I'll put links that I find that I love. We will put them in the show notes and on the blog and all the places. Well, thank you so much for joining us. I love talking to you.
Kim Snodgrass: Yeah, it's always fun.
Speaker: That is a wrap on this week's Pro Organizer Studio Podcast. I will see you next week. Have a great day, organizers.
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